ASL English Spanish and Chinese, part II
Yippee! I got my first comment spam in that old post/rant on how prestigious universities that don't accept American Sign Language as a language that fulfills the graduation requirement are putting themselves in a box. Congratulate me!
What I'm shocked about is that the comments that Larry and I made in Haloscan are mysteriously gone. We had a debate where Larry explained that you are indeed able to sign "I'm disappointed in you" simply by saying "I DISAPPOINT YOU" with the necessary facial emotion.
I think I argued by saying that it was also possible for people to mouth the words for other deaf people to lipread as a way to complement the sign language, and that was one of the reasons I didn't mention facial expression as really important in a signed language.
I will add that facial expression is much like vocal expression. To sound angry, you must speak angrily with an angry voice, and a complementary angry face. To look angry, you must sign angrily with an angry face.
I put facial expression under that category, which may be why hearing people have trouble expressing facial expression, because just as learning a language like Spanish, it is hard to voice anger in Spanish without laughing, unless you are really angry and also fluent in Spanish enough to be angry. You have to speak very fast, and vary your tone such that anger can be very easily heard without any possible misinterpretation.
Otherwise, the natural step, if you want to show anger, is to revert to your first language, which may be English. After all, Spanish people who speak English as a second and fluent language may, in the rise of passion (anger, fear, happiness, etc.), suddenly shout words in Spanish even though no one in the English speaking world would likely understand. The only thing we can get is the emotion, and facial expression.
The debate over whether you can say "I'm disappointed in you" in the structure of ASL continues, at least for me, if other people don't see it that way. A language must be able to express everything without facial expression, just as it should be able to express everything without sounding angry or sad. It should be capable of being written down.
Without mouth movement where you can see which words are being lipped, I don't see ASL as being able to differentiate between "miss" and "disappoint" because they use the same sign.
In the end, ASL may be more like Chinese. Chinese, for example, have many words that have the same sounds, but it must rely on context and emotional expression (as ASL does) together to give clear meaning. In Chinese, however, though words have the same sounds, they are all written differently.
If ASL depends on writing in glossed English, then English can conceivably provides ASL with different words for the same sign to have different meaning. However, I love ASL for the way it blurs "to miss someone" and "to be disappointed in someone" into the same sign. Much like the two famous Chinese characters, whose meaning is blurred when each standing alone but becomes the word "crisis" when both stand together, ASL provides a new way for me to think and makes me consider how language and communication work.
To have a word with two dual meanings is much like physicists trying to find out if light is a particle or a wave or both. Depending on how you measure it, you will get only one meaning. But if you have it stand alone, it could mean anything. For a word to be like that makes me embrace it more, because human beings are so much like that.
Like the Atlantic article on the politics of the United States, human beings are all varying shades of purple, but when you pass them through the election day on November 2nd, they come out as distinct red or blue. That is why I embrace America for being so paradoxical, for fighting so much, for always debating everything and demonizing the opposition, and for always not letting things pass quickly. In Canada, same-sex marriage has been legalized with barely a fight. In some parts of Europe, the same thing is happening or has already happenend.
It is in America, a country that I love and have live only in, that there is so much fighting, so much religion, so much debate, that I don't doubt the vitality of the American people will continue for many generations. Rather than accepting a truth, America is so designed for debating and fighting that any faction within it is ready to take over to give a new burst of policies and ideas if the old one fails.
When you look at Japan, you can see a stagnant economy of the 90's that was there because no one was willing to change traditional ways of managing things. In America, that is not likely to happen because people are ready to change. Companies are ready to devour each other, and they do so because of a government that is accommodating and that stands as a check and balance supporter. It supports business with a sturdy legal foundation even as it checks and balances the companies with regulations and taxes.
I began this post to talk about the comment spam I had linking to sex and gambling sites. It has been deleted. I know from looking at my counter that many people have been looking for danger and opportunity in crisis. So I'm happy to tell everyone that I got my first comment spam, and my first opportunity to delete it.
Yippee!!!
In retrospect, I should have saved it. I still have the original wording, with links removed:
Post truncated, click Full Post Below to read on permalink.
What I'm shocked about is that the comments that Larry and I made in Haloscan are mysteriously gone. We had a debate where Larry explained that you are indeed able to sign "I'm disappointed in you" simply by saying "I DISAPPOINT YOU" with the necessary facial emotion.
I think I argued by saying that it was also possible for people to mouth the words for other deaf people to lipread as a way to complement the sign language, and that was one of the reasons I didn't mention facial expression as really important in a signed language.
I will add that facial expression is much like vocal expression. To sound angry, you must speak angrily with an angry voice, and a complementary angry face. To look angry, you must sign angrily with an angry face.
I put facial expression under that category, which may be why hearing people have trouble expressing facial expression, because just as learning a language like Spanish, it is hard to voice anger in Spanish without laughing, unless you are really angry and also fluent in Spanish enough to be angry. You have to speak very fast, and vary your tone such that anger can be very easily heard without any possible misinterpretation.
Otherwise, the natural step, if you want to show anger, is to revert to your first language, which may be English. After all, Spanish people who speak English as a second and fluent language may, in the rise of passion (anger, fear, happiness, etc.), suddenly shout words in Spanish even though no one in the English speaking world would likely understand. The only thing we can get is the emotion, and facial expression.
The debate over whether you can say "I'm disappointed in you" in the structure of ASL continues, at least for me, if other people don't see it that way. A language must be able to express everything without facial expression, just as it should be able to express everything without sounding angry or sad. It should be capable of being written down.
Without mouth movement where you can see which words are being lipped, I don't see ASL as being able to differentiate between "miss" and "disappoint" because they use the same sign.
In the end, ASL may be more like Chinese. Chinese, for example, have many words that have the same sounds, but it must rely on context and emotional expression (as ASL does) together to give clear meaning. In Chinese, however, though words have the same sounds, they are all written differently.
If ASL depends on writing in glossed English, then English can conceivably provides ASL with different words for the same sign to have different meaning. However, I love ASL for the way it blurs "to miss someone" and "to be disappointed in someone" into the same sign. Much like the two famous Chinese characters, whose meaning is blurred when each standing alone but becomes the word "crisis" when both stand together, ASL provides a new way for me to think and makes me consider how language and communication work.
To have a word with two dual meanings is much like physicists trying to find out if light is a particle or a wave or both. Depending on how you measure it, you will get only one meaning. But if you have it stand alone, it could mean anything. For a word to be like that makes me embrace it more, because human beings are so much like that.
Like the Atlantic article on the politics of the United States, human beings are all varying shades of purple, but when you pass them through the election day on November 2nd, they come out as distinct red or blue. That is why I embrace America for being so paradoxical, for fighting so much, for always debating everything and demonizing the opposition, and for always not letting things pass quickly. In Canada, same-sex marriage has been legalized with barely a fight. In some parts of Europe, the same thing is happening or has already happenend.
It is in America, a country that I love and have live only in, that there is so much fighting, so much religion, so much debate, that I don't doubt the vitality of the American people will continue for many generations. Rather than accepting a truth, America is so designed for debating and fighting that any faction within it is ready to take over to give a new burst of policies and ideas if the old one fails.
When you look at Japan, you can see a stagnant economy of the 90's that was there because no one was willing to change traditional ways of managing things. In America, that is not likely to happen because people are ready to change. Companies are ready to devour each other, and they do so because of a government that is accommodating and that stands as a check and balance supporter. It supports business with a sturdy legal foundation even as it checks and balances the companies with regulations and taxes.
I began this post to talk about the comment spam I had linking to sex and gambling sites. It has been deleted. I know from looking at my counter that many people have been looking for danger and opportunity in crisis. So I'm happy to tell everyone that I got my first comment spam, and my first opportunity to delete it.
Yippee!!!
In retrospect, I should have saved it. I still have the original wording, with links removed:
Hot Sexual dating personals
Sexy Chat/Web-Cam
1. Hot Match - Maker
2. Fulfill your Passion
3. Sex and Swingers
OFF Topic... Please Delete if not OK!
Post truncated, click Full Post Below to read on permalink.
Labels: asl
posted by Alan at February 20, 2005
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